News: IBEW Locals in 15 States and Provinces Have passed a Motion To Support The OMOV Proposal

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Author Topic: Re: Recording Secretary  (Read 7642 times)

Offline PSperanza

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2009, 12:31:45 PM »
The motion contains a clause that states members cannot use electronic recording devices unless they have the permission of... guess who?

 Of course... you guessed it, the Business Manager. :)

So according to that motion if you asked the business manager and he said OK, they could go ahead and take pictures or record the meeting. Has anyone done that? Is someone cleared to record the meeting by the business manager? I suppose that question should be asked. :)

Theoretically he could allow someone to record what goes for whatever reason he considered valid. This gives him an unusual power and control over the rights of the members don't you think?

When the supporters of that motion spoke on the floor they claimed that what happens in a meeting was private and had always been considered private and that members had always condemned any publication of what happened in meetings. They said "What happens here stays here" Allowing someone to have a camera which could be used to record how a person votes violated that privacy. That was exactly my point in taking those pictures... we had ballots handed to us but I believed the chairman was attempting hijack the process by doing those quick hand counts that did not represent the true will of the members.

We had a motion to put on the floor in August 2008 to endorse the Code of Excellence. I questioned the fact that the membership was being asked to endorse a policy when no written form had been presented to us. Several others had questions about that motion that were not answered properly and the debate and vote was pushed through by the chairman.

Joe Fashion wrote an article in the next newsletter and named three members as having spoken against the Code of Excellence! What ever happened to the what happens here stays here? The three executive board members who spoke in favour of the motion had their statements printed word for word with such accuracy as one could swear that someone would have had to make a recording to refer to. ;)

The three members who pointed out issues with the presentation of the motion did not have any details of what they had said, but it simply stated they spoke against the motion.

Now does that seems fair to you 424sparky?

Do those members who spoke in favour of that motion have more rights than the ones Fashion claims spoke against the motion? I never said I was against the motion by the way I stated clearly that I was not against the motion. But Fashion published that I spoke aginst the motion.

A correction or apology was never printed to correct or clarify in order to undo the potential confusion and damage that an article like that could do to a members reputation in the eyes of the membership.

Now I'm talking like George Smith.  ???

I should say... that I'm concerned with what the membership read with their eyes... what in my eyes, was a misrepresentation because in the eyes of Joe Fashion I was against the motion. ;)

I wonder if brother Smith can admit that the real problem with recording minutes and defending them with the statement "in my eyes" is that statement seems to presumes an opinion or interpretation of the facts and the minutes should be only factual and there should be no interpretations or opinions inserted by the person recording them.

This is getting long again. ???

You see 424sparky, we are actually dealing with the fundamentals of democracy. Allow me to make one more point in this post... if everyone carries electronic recording devices on their person these days and the officials at a union meeting couldn't possibly control who carries or uses them in union meetings what would be the purpose of passing a motion restricting their use?

Obviously if a member ever produced a recording in a closed IBEW meeting or tribunal to defend themselves he could then be subject to charges for doing that. So that bylaw has no real implications on the freedoms of a member in that regard unless he actually tries to use what he records.

But if electronic evidence was collected against a member and the business manager had given his permission prior to or after (the motion doesn't limit the business manger in that regard) it could be used.

What need would there be for a bylaw like that if the minutes were recorded officially and then if a member wanted something included in the official minutes there would be no discussion. Or why not just use that recorded version as the official reference and record? OK there are few problems but would they be any worse then what we have now?

Now all this is speculation but if you've ever had to deal with defending yourself inside the IBEW justice system you quickly realize that even the smallest inconsistencies and double standards concerning your rights can be exploited by intelligent people to the extent that what you have in the end is a watered down form of real justice.

Boy I really like how I brought that in at the end. :)

I dare anyone to challenge my conclusion that the IBEW justice system is subject to abuse by individuals in positions of power and must be addressed so that proud members can speak freely and challenge injustice to make our organization one that is truly representative of the hearts and minds of strong trade unionists.         
I love our local 353, SOLIDARITY and SUCCESS to the members in Alberta!

Offline 424sparky

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2009, 04:44:51 PM »
Perry
Complete double standard and unfair.
How can previously recorded minutes that are later typed or written out be verified as correct.
Sorry , I was using common sense and with our 2 locals this does not apply.

Offline GoodTradeUnionist

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2009, 10:45:22 AM »
Here's the problem.  You have this chat with that Kook Kathy in Barrie who was suspended for non-payment of dues, and these are the real trade unionists you run with.

Everyone of you jokers are dangerous because your politics is all about imagined corruption, and trying to find excuses for why you keep losing. 

If Jeff Hussey doesn't get his head straight, he may end up a one term wonder.  Then the demons really set in, just look back at Steve Berry and Ron White. 

I truly hope that Jeff isn't getting all his pointers from Perry and Len.  It would sure be a waste of time and energy. 

His sloppy and ill conceived flip-flop at the Eboard, where he supported the Fashion administration, only to wave his arms and claim he did not was pure folly.

Jeff must learn to lead and be an independent voice.  There are too many handlers, all losers themselves, trying to fill his empty jar head with knowledge. 

Time will tell whether Jeff survives, but it isn't looking too promising at this time.  It is becoming apparent that Jeff is an empty vessel.  But I keep praying I'm wrong. 
Just retired, enjoying my pension.

Offline irish2

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2009, 11:57:46 AM »
TAPE ALL MEETING ,TAPE ALL MEETING .WHAT ARE YOU  SCARED OF .

Offline Jim Upper

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2009, 12:54:21 PM »
Quote
Everyone of you jokers are dangerous because your politics is all about imagined corruption, and trying to find excuses for why you keep losing.

would you not agree that physical evidence does not lie? So why is it when a hearing is held and the evidence that is submitted that proves something is buried, transcription of the hearing is not made available until demanded and a report is generated by the chairman of the hearing that claims the opposite and is used to make the final decision regarding the hearing that was never attended by the author of the decision? Should not the hearing transcript be used to decide the verdict? It is then reused by the next author of the appeal decision? If this was taken to court it would be reversed in a second. Well it is going to the OLRB and possibly to a law suit later.
Threats and lies are the work of the desperate people that attack me.  Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth~Albert Einstein  RIP

Offline GoodTradeUnionist

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2009, 07:03:47 PM »
Brother Upper...maybe black beauty...or some other name for the juice that got me through trade school.

On paper you seem smart.  But that's the same problem that Erik Klyne and Perry Speranza have.  Common sense is so rare it is often mistaken for genius. 

I suppose you are one of those folks who cannot operate with a sense of community spirit.  Again, Peter Wall is a nice decent fellow.  You must be some turd to get charged. 

But by your own admission you are leaving the union and moving on.  I suspect there is an aura around you, and this was evident early on.

Glad to see you are going to make peace with nature and blow some good hydro and contemplate the meaning of life.  You should have not wasted a spot on the ballot if you were heading for greener pastures.

It sounds more and more like you are a genuine political flake. 



Just retired, enjoying my pension.

Offline PSperanza

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2009, 08:58:40 PM »
Brother Upper...maybe black beauty...or some other name for the juice that got me through trade school.

On paper you seem smart.  But that's the same problem that Erik Klyne and Perry Speranza have.  Common sense is so rare it is often mistaken for genius. 

I suppose you are one of those folks who cannot operate with a sense of community spirit.  Again, Peter Wall is a nice decent fellow.  You must be some turd to get charged. 

But by your own admission you are leaving the union and moving on.  I suspect there is an aura around you, and this was evident early on.

Glad to see you are going to make peace with nature and blow some good hydro and contemplate the meaning of life.  You should have not wasted a spot on the ballot if you were heading for greener pastures.

It sounds more and more like you are a genuine political flake. 


Notice how GoodTradeUnionist has nothing intelligent to say about the issue. ???

Too complicated for you GoodTradeUnionist? ???

You love being anonymous so you can take cheap shots at people don't you... there was kid in my neighbourhood who would make comments to people when they were walking up the street when he was with his dad. One day I ran into him walking down the laneway when he wasn't protected and I think he peed his pants. ;D

I had no bad intentions. ;D

What are you going to do next talk about how you used to do Peruvian flake on St.Clair with your buddy Eddie Melo. ;D

You are special aren't you. :)
I love our local 353, SOLIDARITY and SUCCESS to the members in Alberta!

Offline stonecoldsteve

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2009, 11:02:32 PM »
Quote
Notice how GoodTradeUnionist has nothing intelligent to say about the issue

Did he ever? ::)

Offline Jim Upper

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Re: Recording Secretary
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2009, 12:37:22 AM »
Brother Upper...maybe black beauty...or some other name for the juice that got me through trade school.

On paper you seem smart.  But that's the same problem that Erik Klyne and Perry Speranza have.  Common sense is so rare it is often mistaken for genius. 

I suppose you are one of those folks who cannot operate with a sense of community spirit.  Again, Peter Wall is a nice decent fellow.  You must be some turd to get charged. 

But by your own admission you are leaving the union and moving on.  I suspect there is an aura around you, and this was evident early on.

Glad to see you are going to make peace with nature and blow some good hydro and contemplate the meaning of life.  You should have not wasted a spot on the ballot if you were heading for greener pastures.

It sounds more and more like you are a genuine political flake. 
Well funny you say that, who's truck do you think was supplying the power (for free) for the sound system for the CNH protest that Danny Glover spoke at in Niagara Falls to stand up for collective bargaining rights. In fact three times, I stood up for another unions fight for justice side by side with Steel Workers, CAW and other caring unions. So where were the rest of my Brothers like you? (other than two others)

The community spirit I have is rooting out people that lie on purpose and to look for people that have honour in that they want a better representation. Perhaps you are not aware of one recent pick to work for IO that held someone at gun point or are you? Speaks volumes about our hiring practices. No brother, I am a lot higher quality than that. I will take the evidence all the way to the OLRB/ legal system, then you can take your premature judgment and use it

Sorry, but if I hadn't nominated two people and accepted a nomination Peter might have had to hold a second nomination meeting because most refused to run..

Yup, you view everything as political, I don't. I didn't say I am leaving the union, I figure Peter (maybe Terry&Jim),Bill,Phil, and Ed will get rid of me. I just don't see the need to live down wind of nuclear plants and Ohio Valley pollution any longer, cancer rate is too high. If I was a genius you wouldn't know it anyway, I'd just be doing things that you don't understand. As for responding to you, I know you derive pleasure from this, you probably have a scrap book of your work, and notes on people. Kinda goes with the teritory doesn't it.Think green?

Just one of a few emails I get.



I'd like to once again thank the many thousands of you who regularly participate in LabourStart's online campaigns. And I want to tell you how your messages are helping.

Turkey: Our most recent campaign calls on a Turkish company (Sinter Metal) to reinstate workers who were sacked for joining a union.  In the last week, over 1,850 of you have sent off messages to the company.  The result, according to union sources in Turkey, is that the employer is feeling the pressure.  They've now phoned every worker to ask them to stop their resistance and return to work, and have offered money to those who do so.  According to a source in the union, "I think that the LabourStart campaign also made him afraid and that's why he began to call workers."

Iran: Nearly two months ago, we asked you to help us flood the Iranian government with messages of protest over the case of workers at the Haft Tapeh Sugar Cane Plantation and Industry Company.  We learned this week from the IUF that the union president, Ali Nejati, has been released after a month in solidarity confinement.  He is now free on bail - but other union leaders remain imprisoned.  Our campaign, which has so far sent over 6,770 messages, is having an effect.

Iraq: Our campaign in support of the Iraqi teachers union -- which faced the threat of a government takeover -- has contributed to a somewhat improved situation.  Two weeks ago, the teachers were able to hold a large, peaceful protest in Baghdad and the union is due to meet with the Minister for Civil Society Organisations, Dr. Thamer Jaffer, who is actually the one who started the problem in the first place.  Your 4,500 messages which were received by Iraqi embassies in London, Ottawa, Canberra and elsewhere have certainly helped keep up the pressure.

I'm convinced that if we ramp up the pressure, working together with the brave trade unionists on the ground, we can win important victories in all three countries. 

We can persuade Sinter Metal -- which is facing a court battle with the union that it will almost certainly lose -- to back down and re-hire the sacked union members.  We can convince the Iranian government to release the other jailed Haft Tapeh union leaders.  And we can get the Iraqi government to back down on its threats against the teachers' union.

We can do this if we can persuade many more trade unionists to send off messages. 

This message is being sent to the 60,000 subscribers to LabourStart's mailing lists in ten languages.  If each one of you will make an effort to forward this message to other members of your own union, to write about these cases on your blogs and websites, and to talk up these campaigns in the workplace and at union meetings, we can do this.

Our unions have millions of members.  We should be sending many more messages of protest than we have done so far.

We're two weeks away from the international workers' holiday, May Day.  Let's hope that this year we'll be able to celebrate with these workers in Turkey, Iran and Iraq -- and many others -- by defeating efforts to bust their unions, defending workers' rights and building international solidarity.

I know I can count on you.



Eric Lee

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« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 08:48:52 PM by Jim Upper »
Threats and lies are the work of the desperate people that attack me.  Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth~Albert Einstein  RIP