Perry Speranza

[The Great Gazoo]

[GoodTradeUnionist]

Could not have been better said even if Barry Stevens made this post. 

Hey, what am I saying, I am Barry Stevens!

Maybe we need a draft watermark on all posts, following in the footsteps of official meeting scribe, Bros. George Smith.

[serf]

Great Gazoo,

A minor inconvenience but not an infringement of free speech nor any right whatsoever.

[PSperanza]

Hey Geddy and Gaz,

It would be great to be able to have editing of posts for a specified period of time so we could correct errors, but I don't think this forum gives that option. It's either or.

In my opinion this forum is useful in providing historical record of events that then allows a new reader to catch up if they wish and be able to see why we may be having the discussions we are having.

I have seen some people take advantage of the ability to delete posts and in effect pull the rug out from a discussion by removing whatever caused the discussion to evolve in a certain direction. That can be confusing and unfair to those wishing to get the full experience.

...and you know me, I like the full monty.

I am beginning to see things (histories) disappear on mediums like Facebook, it's very subtle but effective. there seem to be technical justifications for some groups info to be moved to servers that have certain "limitations". We are only seeing this type of anomaly now so it's too soon to jump to conclusions but it's worth observing and noting for future reference.

Which brings us back to the point that I believe is important... "future reference".

It allows for a real factual continuity.

If posts go "poof", then there is a certain unfairness to that in my opinion.

It's a dilemma of sorts, or maybe a conundrum of sorts.

How can the forum be fair while preserving it's integrity?

I do appreciate your input and opinions dear fellow forum members.

I hope we can explore solutions so that we can move forward in debate and discussion without erasing our pasts.

Brotherhood without Borders...

A membership of Hearts and Minds...

And aliases.



 

     

[GoodTradeUnionist]

Now I understand how you got so deliriously bent out of shape over different iterations of union minutes. Because you fail to appreciate that the 353 union minutes are living breathing documents that go through severals edits, you detrimentally relied on the Recording Secretaries revised drafts to histrionically proclaim controversially, and allege revisionism of past union events. 

Not unlike some bands who can record a song in one take (not many), there are legions who in the spirit of perfection record many takes.  Similarly with 353 minutes, we see the same attention to detail and nuance when George Smith prepares for all time his recording of events for the 353 archives.  A nip here, a tuck there, and voila, that's how union history is written. 

It's ironic that resident academic and union folk lore historian, Brother Les Carbonaro, takes no umbridge with the minutes.  Considering his union academic credentials, I would think this brother in particular would be our canary in the coal mine if there was a stink about the proper accounting of past union events.  He is after all, if you read this month's newsletter, a distinguished union scholar and brotherhood saint.   

[Fly on the Wall]

Well I think it's great. Consider meeting minutes being changed because someone made a terrible mistake and the wrong motion was accepted being one that omitted pertainant wording? It would be an embarrassment to have to bring a motion to amend a motion that was already accepted. Or someone stated something that wasn't true and it is going to go to court. It is much easier to have the Recording Secretary change an official document than it is to disappear years of meeting minutes to hide evidence and be believable. Better to use slight of hand on financial documents than face an angry mob I suspect.

[Fonzie]

Well look at that. Mr. Phony "Freedom of Speech" censored me and deleted my thread.

For anyone interested, the link I posted was:

electriciansimporters.weebly.com

Bringing Chinese "electricians" to Canada!

[Eric Klyne]

Well look at that. Mr. Phony "Freedom of Speech" censored me and deleted my thread.

For anyone interested, the link I posted was:

electriciansimporters.weebly.com

Bringing Chinese "electricians" to Canada!

Well, look at that.
Fonzie, an anonymous poster decides to display his repulsive, racist attitude by posting a link that promotes hate against people of Chinese descent. 

Sorry Fonzie but that webpage that you promoted violates the Human Rights Act of Alberta
and I'm guessing Ontario, Canada and the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

We have a problem with the Canadian TFW program Fonzie.
Yes, there are individual new immigrants that have taken advantage of the system...
BUT your post was an obvious FAKE hate post that served no purpose but to incite hate.

Fonzie.... f#@& OFF!
This forum is not a venue to propagate such garbage.

http://www.albertahumanrights.ab.ca/other/statements.asp

[Fonzie]

I've had more than one Chinese man tell me straight up that they paid five thousand for the exact service described on that website. They are getting cocky, because there's nothing you can do about it. Do you think if you called the apprenticeship board and told them that so-and-so confessed to you that he "bought his ticket", that they would take away his ticket on your say-so? After all, he ostensibly passed the government test.

We actually had a Chinese guy on one job who all the other Chinese made fun of - for having wasted his time doing an actual Canadian apprenticeship.

It's not hateful to complain about people with fake tickets in your industry. It's unfair to people who have done apprenticeships and post-secondary education in this country. The fact that the vast majority of these were from China was because it was sold to them in particular.

But you weren't there for the big incursion of fake-ticket electricians in Alberta, were you Eric? How long's it been since you worked as an electrician in our industry?

[Eric Klyne]

I've had more than one Chinese man tell me straight up that they paid five thousand for the exact service described on that website. They are getting cocky, because there's nothing you can do about it. Do you think if you called the apprenticeship board and told them that so-and-so confessed to you that he "bought his ticket", that they would take away his ticket on your say-so? After all, he ostensibly passed the government test.

We actually had a Chinese guy on one job who all the other Chinese made fun of - for having wasted his time doing an actual Canadian apprenticeship.

It's not hateful to complain about people with fake tickets in your industry. It's unfair to people who have done apprenticeships and post-secondary education in this country. The fact that the vast majority of these were from China was because it was sold to them in particular.

But you weren't there for the big incursion of fake-ticket electricians in Alberta, were you Eric? How long's it been since you worked as an electrician in our industry?

Honestly Fonzie, you are barking up the wrong tree.
I don't recall seeing you at the IBEW Local 424 Union meetings when we were addressing the problem of the influx of alleged Journeyman members who barely spoke English and had the skills of a 1st year apprentice.
I also don't recall seeing you at Suncor where we had issues with these new members.

I was in the thick of it with my fellow IBEW 424 Brothers who assisted in the fight to rectify a problem that the IBEW 353 ex-President Barry Stevens started http://ourlocal353.ca/forums/index.php?topic=4398.msg37627#msg37627
and IBEW 424 ex-Business Manager Tim Brower made worse. http://ourlocal353.ca/forums/index.php?topic=4398.msg37627#msg37627


Why not come over to Facebook where there is actually a large audience and healthy participation of individuals that have the hearts and minds of unionism Fonzie?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/10251834461/

[Eric Klyne]

Link correction for Barry Stevens.

I was in the thick of it with my fellow IBEW 424 Brothers who assisted in the fight to rectify a problem
that the IBEW 353 ex-President Barry Stevens started http://www.changingthecanvas.org/node/30
and IBEW 424 ex-Business Manager Tim Brower made worse. http://ourlocal353.ca/forums/index.php?topic=4398.msg37627#msg37627

[Fonzie]

This study was commissioned by 424 in 2011:
http://www.hammondassociatesinc.com/pdfs/Analyzing-Language-Electric.pdf

On pg 10, it notes:
2. ‘Fake ticket’ issue
It is rumoured that some internationally-trained electricians have not ‘earned’ their ticket and there is resentment that these electricians are being paid as journeymen. It is rumoured that these so-called ‘fake tickets’ have been obtained in one of the following ways:
a. buying a ticket
b. having an interpreter who provided answers on the Red Seal exam
c. having someone else write the exam
d. being ‘trained’ to take the exam
e. falsifying work experience.

Gee, maybe it's because some of them openly admit to it now?

Then the report dismisses the idea:

However, questions around the technical competence of internationally-trained electricians seem to fuel a number of negative comments that we heard. Some of the perceptions that were shared do not seem to be substantiated by fact. Most internationally-trained electricians expressed satisfaction with their workplace interactions, but also noted that there were instances of discrimination. As one ITE, who had worked as an electrician for several years in the U.S. before coming to Alberta, lamented, “I don’t know what happened (referring to the ‘fake ticket’ issue) but it affects us all. We all have the same face."

I can't believe we paid for this report.